Last summer we sat down with a few of the shapers on surfboardbuilders.com to discuss among other things the growth of "pop out" boards. The interview ended up being too hot to get posted or covered in the usual spots....so here it is!
There is a growing concern in the grass roots surf community within America and elsewhere about molded and South Asian imported surfboards and misconceptions about the boards being fueled by high profit and advertising dollars. The blogs have been on it for a couple years but often surfers at large are getting conflicting information. The guys at surfboardbuilders.com sat down with a few top hand shapers to have an open discussion on this topic.
There is a growing concern in the grass roots surf community within America and elsewhere about molded and South Asian imported surfboards and misconceptions about the boards being fueled by high profit and advertising dollars. The blogs have been on it for a couple years but often surfers at large are getting conflicting information. The guys at surfboardbuilders.com sat down with a few top hand shapers to have an open discussion on this topic.
Shapers: Larry Mabile, Michael Andrews, Tim Bessell
Tell us about the beginning?
TB: When this first started, I was approached by a company with production in China. I gave them a board, not mine, to see if they could copy it and they sent me back the two of the most horrific boards I’ve ever seen. I gave one to a team rider and he broke the first board in half the first wave. The second board broke in half about a week later. That was my first and last experience with China. There is absolutely no need for me to go there.
I make surfboards for the love of the craft and because its my life, its my purpose, and I love shaping surfboards everyday. As people becomes more educated they’re going to demand a hand made product…and they rightfully should because it’s far superior.
LM: When this first started it was like this high pressure sales thing. It was like, “hey you have to get on this now. You gotta have these, ‘cause these boards are the future.”
The way it came about truly, I don’t want to say “has been” shapers but guys that were out of the surf scene for a long time. They did not surf or build boards…then all of a sudden with the resurgence of longboards and molded boards with licensing deals they were able to get back into the market on their past laurels…just to make a buck.
Literally many did not shape the board that they are attaching their name to. They had somebody else do it, had a mold made of it, and off they went. It was just advertising and using the past as a way to promote their surfboards. So what you’re getting now from those oversees things is fake…it’s just a fake all the way around.
I could name names and give examples because I’ve seen it. In one recent example the board was made here, shipped back to Thailand, and the mold was made off the board. And like I said it came down to these guys that didn’t even shape the board. They crudely shaped it had someone else finish it up for them. Then it got sent over to China to be reproduced.
Comment on the growth of pop outs and china boards?
MA: In the beginning, initially it wasn’t all that bad….except for quality. Instead of a kid having to go buy a second hand board with 300 dings he could buy something that was clean and at least nicer to look at. Then when they started to get any decent skill surfing then they could move on and buy a higher quality board. It was good because it got more people into the sport. Now it’s changed a bit cause of the advertising.
Right now there are fewer hand shaped boards in shops because of the markup that shops get on Chinese boards. Now some of the shops around here are telling shapers that they have to match Chinese board prices…which is just ludicrous because they (hand shaped boards by master shapers) cost a lot more to make. I guess you can’t blame them. It’s a business. They have to try and make the best margins they can…but this is surfing. The shops need to respect the fact that without shapers they are a boutique.
On quality:
LM: I see a lot of cover ups for manufacturing flaws like fancy colors or a hot coat color just something to cover up flaws.
TB: It’s a double edge sword. The good thing is that they can allow the entry level market to get in at a cheaper rate but with an inferior product. The good thing is that we are going to have more surfers that hopefully we can educate and help them become sophisticated buyers so that there second, third and on boards are the higher quality custom boards make specifically for themselves. Just like what all the top pros have…custom. The biggest problem with China in the long run is going to be a lack of progressive design and then it’s gonna force quality shapers out of the business because of the material and labor differential. So you are abandoning the roots of surfing and buying a Chinese product which is only going to hurt everybody in the industry in the future. It’s very short sighted. The soul and good will of the surfboard would be lost.
MA: They (China) have proven that they can’t get their act together. The quality still sucks, the shapes still suck and its like if they can’t get their act together by now, when are they? I’m definitely not threatened by it. I just wish the retailers would realize that its not all about money. It can’t be. You’ve got to look after the soul of the sport.
What about the term “high performance” often used in ads for these boards?
LM: High performance is a catch word. It’s a marketing term. You aren’t gonna see them say, “buy our new mediocre boards”.
MA: At high performance breaks most guys are still on standard boards. You might see an older guy on an 8’ pop out but for the most part you are not seeing them in the water. Maybe if you are a recreational surfer that goes to the beach a few times a summer but not for the regular surfer.
TB: Many people making boards in south Asia have never seen the ocean. They don’t know how to surf, they don’t give anything back to the surfing world. They only take. When you buy a Chinese board its low quality. Its not built to a master shaper’s specs. Those companies take shapes from shapers and then just spit them back out…and they just don’t have the soul of a handcrafted product made by a shaper/ surfer who can actually shape. Listen, when I shaped my first 5,000 boards I thought I knew everything and learned I didn’t. The same thing has occurred at each level. I do think that once you have built 25,000 boards you really know your craft. That’s when you become a master craftsman. In essence, from China you have novice shapers likely with no feedback from surfing their own shapes or even understanding surfing and often you are paying a premium price.
Most of the great shapers are great surfers. At pipeline your life depends on that board. Are you willing to put your life on the line for a board shaped by someone who has never surfed. You can’t buy or artificially manufacture that experience. The boards from south Asia are just inferior. They don’t have that “x” factor. I mean, if you can get a Ferrari or a Kia for the same price which would you buy?
How seductive is the money:
MA: Yeah the advice coming out of magazines right now is bad. If you have the dollars then you can say whatever you want…they will get into bed with you. Magazines aren’t gonna say, “we don’t want to advertise with you cause it’s a hunk of crap.” There are so many good shapers around. To be honest, I understand guys capitalizing on their name but as a shaper and surfer it just something to make money on but hopefully people understand its inferior to a hand shaped surfboard made by the top guys.
LM: These guys get a royalty check for doing nothing. For going to the beach one day with their molded board and like I said it’s some guys who haven’t shaped in decades capitalizing on their name recognition. It’s not like people are getting something that you actually produce with your own hands. Also, these guys are just getting their royalty check but they are not giving back to surfing. These board manufacturers spend a lot running ads in surf magazines and right now there is lots of bad advice coming out of the magazines. They are swayed editorially by the advertising dollars. It’s bad all the way around…and if this continues where is the innovation? It’s gone. I saw it with the sail board thing. Molded boards killed the whole custom sailboard market around here.
Last words?
MA: Without the people that shape, the possibility of getting a hand shaped board goes away. Getting a new custom board is a highlight. Imagine if in 10-15 years everybody is riding a pop out board and all of the shapers are gone. It would be devastating, I think, to the whole sport.
TB: Hand shaped by a master shaper versus knock off…Do you want an original hand painted Picasso or do you want a print on paper. It’s the same thing with boards. We have hundreds of talented shapers from around the world. You should support those shapers because they are the ones who provided the foundation to this multi billion dollar industry. You don’t want to cut the roots of the tree…because it will die as will the foundation of surfboard design.
LM: I shaped every day by hand. There is no substitute for those years of experience riding, getting feedback, and shaping.
Comment from surfboardbuilders...Does it strike you as funny how the pop out and "new" technology board manufacturers are on a constant mission to create a board that provides the same flex and feel of a poly board?...hmmm
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