Feedback on the Larry Mabile's Swinger ( new surfboard model)

About a month ago I got my Larry Mabile Swinger model after seeing it at the demo event and ordering one.  After trying it at a variety of waves I'm ready to give some feedback.  It has a fishy feel but is a little bit stiffer in the mid and nose section.   It paddles great and gets into waves super easy...all really nice.  It's on the wave that it was a little surprising.  The quad version of course is really fast and flatter sections are easy to blow thru or throw tail slides.  The difference was the feeling that it was more comfortable in the pocket (on hollower waves) than my other fish boards and easier to turn off the top than a traditional or normal modern fish.  This was pretty cool.  If you are looking for something a little different and super fun I highly recommend this board.  I can't wait to get mine in a long down the line point break!

Spotlight on Surfboard Shaper Tim Griffin

Tim Griffin of Griffin Surfboards and Wayne Lynch Surfboards is an enigma in an industry of characters. Often quiet and reserved, sometimes VERY outspoken. One thing is for certain, he is passionate about shaping and what he and others see as a tangent away from the roots of our sport. He also builds exceptional boards...something the folks here at Surfboardbuilders and lots of surfers in the waters off of San Diego and Orange County can attest to.





Tell us a little about how you started in shaping? I started shaping 15 years ago. Initially I was just curious about the process and interested in the surfboards themselves. I did my first few boards without ever having seen a board shaped, just sort of worked my way through it. They turned out pretty rough but actually went ok.

After realizing I really liked shaping and riding my own boards I started checking out other shapers to trying to get a better idea. Eventually I got a job roughing boards for Peter Benjamin in San Diego. That got me a lot of reps with the planer and really helped improve my shaping. In the following years I've worked for Xanadu, Boysen, Cole, Wayne Lynch, and my own brand, Griffin Surfboards.

Who has been your biggest influence? I've been influenced by all the people I've shaped for and have also been inspired by lots of different surfboards. It's really cool to check out the different stuff that's out there.

What are your thoughts on the building of custom boards in today's world?
For the most part, there is only a small part of the surfing community that values hand shaped surfboards. The media marketing machine has devalued the hand shape by promoting the computer. If a label is producing large numbers of surfboards then hand shaping is not realistic. It's too much work and there simply aren't enough shapers that can do it. Therefore, they're going to promote the computer and downplay hand shaping.



I still think the best way to get the perfect board for yourself is to order from a craftsman and have a board custom built to your specs/desires. Unfortunately, shapers aren't paid more for hand shapes so there really isn't any incentive to do it. Hand shaping also requires more time in the shaping room, when time spent marketing is more important to actually sell boards. It will be interesting to see if at some point, as the number of capable shapers decreases, the value of a hand shaped custom board will increase. Time will tell.

Tell us about the trends you are seeing in custom board building? Mostly a lot of guys claiming to hand shape when they're really using the computer. Or worse, designing boards on a computer screen and claiming that's the best thing since sliced bread. I still say a master craftsman uses numbers as guidelines but in the end trusts their hands and eyes to create a clean, balanced board. Something a computer will never be able to do.

Tell us about your favorite surf spots? I mostly surf out of the way beach breaks to try and get away from crowds. It's not the best for business but I prefer to surf alone or with a few friends. I've been to Tavarua and it's tough to beat those waves.

Where do you see the art of custom surfboard building going?
In the toilet...

Tell us about your favorite board to shape and to ride? I like to shape and ride pretty much everything. I guess it depends on the surf and what I'm feeling.

Where do you see design going from here? My guess is the big labels will continue to claim computers are the future. They're probably anxiously waiting for the computer that'll completely finish boards so they don't need to shape at all!



I could see the day when shapers are mostly phased out and design is left to the Kelly Slaters of the world. People will sell that you can get a board that was designed by a top pro.

Meanwhile there will always be guys hand shaping boards because they love it. It's not for the money, believe me. And there will always be surfers who want to participate in the process and get custom boards.

More on Tim here http://www.surfboardbuilders.com/shaper_tim_griffin.aspx

New Fish Type Surfboard Shapes

As we head into the Spring/Summer of 2008 and the time to dust off your fish, the folks here at surfboardbuilders are noticing some new entries to the fish world that are pretty cool and likely to make an impact this summer. Besides the normal array of fun swallow tails, some shapers have come out with fish models that substitute that wide swallow for a wide rounded or diamond tail. The result is often better performance off the top and just smoother turns in general. Plus, as one shaper put it, "I just got tired of cracking my foot on the swallow tail." We've been lucky enough to be able to test a few and they're pretty sweet. Here are a few on the site that are definitely worth taking a look at: Larry Mabile's Diamond Tail Quad (on the top left) http://www.surfboardbuilders.com/BrowseBoard.aspx?ShaperID=15 Doc's New Toy (10th board down on the left column) http://www.surfboardbuilders.com/BrowseBoard.aspx?ShaperID=27 Tim Griffin's GRT Fish (top left board) http://www.surfboardbuilders.com/BrowseBoard.aspx?ShaperID=30 Greg Sauritch's Round Tail Fish (5th board down on the right column) http://www.surfboardbuilders.com/BrowseBoard.aspx?ShaperID=19 Bob Mitsvens RTQ (4th board down on the left column) http://www.surfboardbuilders.com/BrowseBoard.aspx?ShaperID=24

Mitsven Wins Best in Show for his Awesome Wood Surfboard

Congratulations Bob! For those of you that haven't heard Bob Mitsven won the AB3 "Best in Show" prize for his Chambered Cedar Twin Fish. We were lucky enough to see this board in the various stages of being built. The process is pretty complex but the result is awesome!
For those of you that don't know him, besides building seriously great boards (a true craftsman) Bob (and Rick) are a couple of the nicest, most gracious people you will ever meet. Talent and humility are a rare combination....Cheers Guys!
To see Bob's boards on the site click here: http://www.surfboardbuilders.com/BrowseBoard.aspx?ShaperID=24
For more pics and commentary about the event go here: http://forum.surfermag.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1341522&an=0&page=0&gonew=1#UNREAD

...and don't be fooled by the pictures of the wave in the background. The waves there suck!....really

Some time with Master Surfboard Shaper Bill Shrosbree

Late last month Matt and I had a chance to spend the afternoon talking with and interviewing the legendary Bill Shrosbree....


Shros tell us a little bit about the beginning of your career and about your biggest influences:
The beginning for me was when I bought a David Chaney from a guy that surfed Wind and Sea and he shaped boards and balsa boards in the 195o's and made flamenco guitars too. The fin was broken and this friend of mine Walsh, who knew how to fix boards. He put the fin back and showed me how to fix boards and then I started to repair surfboards. Then I started sanding surfboards and then from there when I was about 20, 21 I started shaping with a guy named Wayne Land who was a Wind and Sea guy. A good shaper and he designed the Mickey Dora model.

So he had me glue up and then sand the boards after he leveled them. He’d give me a dollar a board. And then I started with a power plainer and then I shaped my own board. This guy George Lanning helped me out and then Bing (Copeland) walked in and said, "who shaped this board" and I go, "I did"...and he said, "naw you didn't shape this board" and I said, "Yeah I did." Then he looks down at it again and said, "That's pretty good." So then I made another one...a 3 stringer that I didn't do quite as good a job". (laughs)

So then I started shaping at Con's and he had Gary Simmons watch me as I shaped. He showed me more how to use the tools. Then I shaped for Con...and then I left surfing cause I was wondering if it was a bum job so then I went to Palo Alto to do some odd jobs and things up there...but then I called Greg Knoll and he said, yeah to come on down. So I went there and said I'd like to shape boards. He said that I could buff boards and shape.

So then I was getting to shape the Mickey Dora boards…and then the work slowed down. I went to Con and shaped for him again. Then in 1968, I shaped for Bing for awhile then he slowed down so I went to Con again. Then I decided I wanted to go down to Pacific Beach in the summer of 1969 and I went down and worked for Gordon and Smith for about 3 or 4 months till they decided to shrink the amount of their shapers. From there I ended up in San Diego shaping a little bit here and there for small companies…and then went up to Leucadia and shaped for this guy in 1971 called Four Winds. Then I did a few of my own boards until that dried out a little bit and then I met a guy called Sydney Mann who got me shaping for about 13 years for Sunset Surfboards. In the 197o's I was pretty fortunate because a lot of people thought that was one of the best boards on the coast. Larry Gordon thought it was the best board on the coast.

From there I shaped my own label and did a Wayne Lynch Rip Curl model and really about 8 different labels. I met Bill Stewart because he won a board I built in a contest in 1987 in Del Mar… and he won first place. Then he thought he needed a shaper in the future, so I said why don’t you let me do 10 a week. But he wanted me full time. So then I started shaping up there (San Clemente), still doing my own boards but shaping a lot of boards for Stewart from 1987 to 1998.

I was shaping the Jeff Kramer model and the Hydro Hull and in between I shaped a board for Mickey Dora. He said it worked 1,000 times better than the one he had. So then he went out at Swamis and I was on the top of the hill watching him and I said, "1,000 times better without a fin" and he said, "Oh yeah, I hit some guy out there"(laughs).

So then I worked with Velzy too in between…just sanding grooves off and he was fun to work with…for about a year and a half while I was working at Stewart. From there I did my own boards until I started working with Joel Tudor in 2000 to the present…and doing my own label Fresh Pineapple, Surfboards Hawaii, and Hansens. So that's kept me pretty occupied.

Who would you count as your top influences?
Oh Boy, well a guy Tony Schwartz got me surfing and then he introduced to Larry Gordon and Floyd Smith and getting a job with them and renting surfboards with Butch Van Artsdale...Then this guy Andy Soraspee who was really good but didn’t get known. He lent me his balsa board.

Then as far as shapers it’s pretty tough because there's lots of good shapers…but one of them was Terry Martin because it was neat how he just whistled through his work, he was relaxed and could go in there and get a lot of good boards out. You know Bill Stewart, Donald Takayama, Wayne Lynch, George Lanning…there were just so many good shapers back then.

You know they had to go in there and work. It was pretty hard because blanks weren't foiled so much like today…or off a machine. Velzy was an influence putting longer concaves in…there was just a pretty hot pool of guys in California back in the 60's and even up thru now. Jim Phillips today and Steve Clark, Guy Takayama, Skip Frye…there is just all these guys…it’s such a hotbed of talent.

Can you tell us a little bit about your relationship with Velzy?
Velzy was a great guy that you talk to him and he was real positive. He was always, "how ya doing Shros!" He kidded a lot. He was a guy who could just dive in. I remember one time when Stewart was standing there and Velzy came by the shop and Velzy was saying, "Dive in Shros". I think he made Stewart a little nervous cause he was like yeah dive in but be careful. Velzy was aggressive. He'd have a hachet in one hand with a balsa board and he'd be keh!, keh! And I was watching him do it. In no time...and he'd be missing his foot by about a foot and a half...you know it was pretty gnarly. He was just an aggressive guy. He'd wake up a 4:30 in the morning and had the work ethic. He was just strong and get in there with big Rockwell planers...get the wood down...and he had all these tools and kept them sharp. Block planes...you know he wasn't afraid of anything. He'd just go in there and do it.

He made paddle boards, surfboards...so his work ethic was really strong. Again he was up early in the morning…and he was a character and had stories. He had a shop and John Wayne's son would stop by and pick up his board. He had these Hollywood people that were pretty well known stopping by and getting his boards. And all those stories he had like George Burns son surfing Malibu.

There were always stories around Velzy and he just had a good time shaping. You never knew who was going to come by when you were with Velzy. So what he really contributed to my shaping was 4 foot long concaves instead of around 3 on the nose and then that way a guy enters kind of easy and then he goes right into it.

Tell us about the Board you shaped for Dora and your time around him...
Well I shaped his model in 66 and I was kind of learning to shape but he had so many Mickey Dora models going thru that they let me shape them. He had mystic, a mysto guy, you know the public didn't see him too much. He'd be a the beach and you know, surrounded by stories. So one time I had Wayne Land shape a 3 stringer for me cause he'd been shaping longer than me so I asked him, "can I put a Mickey Dora fin on my board?"And he said, "uh yeah, go ahead". So then Mickey Dora comes in the glass shop and sees it and said, "what's the deal. Why's my fin on this board?"(laughs).

The one thing about Mickey Dora where he was way ahead of the curve was that people were putting double 10 (ounce) on each side and were riding a 9'10" surfboard. He was getting 10 ounce on each side and then he as at 9'6" so his boards were shorter and lighter. So I remember a couple good surfers found out and one of them told me don't tell anybody but you should be going with a 9'6" and real light cloth! But I said that I already know that because Mickey told me.

When I met up with him to shape a board for him in 1987 or 1988 he goes, "what size should I go". I said, "maybe 8'8" cause surfboards came back long again. So he had me shape him a narrower board and I might have concaved the deck a little bit and he really liked it. The board he had, I couldn't believe it, it was a Robbie Dick and it had knife rails which is kind of hard to surf (laughs)...and when he rode mine he said this board is a thousand times better...well probably cause the Robbie Dick had knifey rails (laughs). I don't know if he played a joke on him or not.

So Dora was kind of a jokster. You probably heard the Greg Knoll story. Dora goes and orders a bunch of moths and gets them in his house in Beverly Hills. The movies were at Santa Monica Civic back in the old days. It's a Greg Knoll movie and Mickey comes in, in a big black overcoat and sits down. So the movie starts and there’s a lot of people. So the movie is rolling for about 10 minutes and all of a sudden Mickey opens his coat up and all of the moths fly straight to the light from the projector and just shut the movie down cause of all moths. People started yelling,"Where’s the movie. What's the deal". Then everyone starts yelling for their money back. Then Greg Knoll starts walking up from the stage and yells, "I know you're here Mickey. Where are you". Mickey had escaped about three minutes earlier (laughs). So they were kind of pranksters to each other.

So what strikes you as the difference between surfing and shaping now and surfing and shaping back then?
The shapers are real versatile now. Back when I started, when you were shaping 2 to 5 year...that was pretty good. Now some people don't think you have been shaping long if you have been shaping for 2 to 5 years. When I came in it was pretty hard to get in. You had to pretty well hit it right on or, they might give you a little room but then they put you in production. You were under a little more pressure. You really had to click in pretty quick. At first you might get 3 a day and then later 6 a day. Now guys can come in easier now and not have so much pressure but today shapers are just so much more versatile and there are just so many different shapes. One time I did a round tail and square tail and gave it to Dale Dobson and people said ahhh that won't work. I was just trying to do something asymmetric. Then he went out and got second. Then they started looking at the board. Nowadays there is just so much design. Its almost confusing for the public...so many different styles of boards that can do so many different things. Its amazing what's going on. Its pressure and release now with these chips.

On a tape I made in 71 I said was that some day that shapers will know fin design or go to a fin specialist and people will really know how important fins are and that the surfboard will be an instrument that you can put any where you want. That's basically what's happened. Through lightness, thinness, and you can get about any ride you want now...single fin, twin fin, tri fin, quad fin, 5 fin, and so. Today I don't think you can get bored surfing with so many different choices.

Any last thoughts.
I am still stoked to be shaping surfboards, enjoying shaping, and being thankful I can shape. Also I'm pretty happy to have been able to have worked for the good companies and owner...and how they treat you with respect...that people still light up when they get that special board. It's such a neat thing to do. You can go surfing, then come back in and really enjoy shaping and people.

When I was 18 years old and worked for Bing and he'd say thank you Bill, "you are doing a good job." Lots of really nice guy...you know, Greg Knoll saying, "Thanks Bill." You know in construction sometimes they get down on you. In surfing they treat you with a lot of class and respect.
Unidentified on a Shros Fresh Pineapple

Doc from Surf Prescriptions on Surfboard Design

Where do you see the direction of high performance surfboard design going?
It's going in more directions than ever. It's pretty exciting for everyone in surfing. The high performance boards are getting extremely high performance...and those boards are becoming boards that only extremely talented surfers can even ride. It's great because its giving them what they need...speed, mobility, and a vehicle that will match what they can do on a wave.

At the same time we are doing all kinds of fish and small wave boards, quads...boards for mortals which match what they can do and what's making it easy for them to perform at their top level. Surfboard design in general is branching out in different ways all at the same time. It's good because there's more of a variety of surfers out there now.

How are the top pros approaching design?
I think that there are so many nuances in boards now that shapers and surfers are tuned into. Things are much more technical and personalized now. So we are designing more to ability, where they surf, and how someone surfs.

The pros are all really different. Some are really into 1/16" here or there or on the other hand someone might just say I like the way this board surfs which leaves it more up to the shaper to figure it out. Sometimes we will make a few boards and see which one someone likes out of that batch then for the next batch do variations off of the one that was chosen...it's an ongoing continual process.

You have lots of new models out for 2008...which one(s) are most exciting for you?
For the high performance boards I have the PX model. It stands for Performance Extreme" and it's the most technical model in my pro line. It's got a lot of tail rocker...a bit more nose rocker than my Pro II model but a lot more tail rocker and a deep concave that's really accentuated in the fin area. The deep concave and the extreme rocker work together that make the board super technical...really hard to ride but if you are on top of it, super rewarding...fast, super free, and easy to throw the tail over the lip...most of my pro riders are using it now.

Tell us a little about foam in a post Clark world?
The foam we are using now is stronger and lighter and as far as availability there is more good foam available from different sources...so it's a really a healthy situation. The boards now, post Clark, are stronger, lighter, and there are more options...and as far as the companies out there. They've got it pretty wired.

Are your top riders using standard poly boards or EPS?
My top guys are getting maybe 9 poly boards and one EPS board per 10...maybe 2 epoxy boards out of 10 and we've been mostly making those for smaller waves. So a lot of team guys will get one and really like it but not for everything. I personally see that as where things are going (for smaller surf) where you can benefit from a stronger, lighter board.

So where do you see custom surfboard shaping and design going?
It's "strange times" in the surfboard building world. For sure there are a lot more options as far as boards being made out of the country...molded boards, its kind of really all over the place but I think its going to gel and come back to the great shapers making a great product...a handmade product and its going be valued. I see this happening and I think sooner rather than later too.

There are more options now but as people progress more in their surfing. The elite shapers have been doing it forever and really know what they are doing. They have put in their years and really developed their skills through the time honored process of doing board after boards ....and gaining knowledge by doing it. Shapers like this are going to be even more important in the future.

check out all of Doc's new boards including the 2008 models here:
http://www.surfboardbuilders.com/BrowseBoard.aspx?ShaperID=27